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	<title>Comments on: Discussing the importance of form</title>
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		<title>By: Topics about Martial-arts &#187; Archive &#187; Discussing the importance of form &#124; Gisoku Budo</title>
		<link>http://www.gisoku-budo.com/2009/03/discussing-the-importance-of-form/comment-page-1/#comment-23</link>
		<dc:creator>Topics about Martial-arts &#187; Archive &#187; Discussing the importance of form &#124; Gisoku Budo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Mar 2009 07:02:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gisoku-budo.com/?p=171#comment-23</guid>
		<description>[...] Sean placed an observative post today on Discussing the importance of form &#124; Gisoku BudoHere&#8217;s a quick excerptThis doesn’t mean I don’t appreciate the extreme effectiveness that modern styles with less emphasis on form than the traditionalists, like MMA, or styles like Muay Thai, Keysi or even Krav Maga bring to the table of martial arts in &#8230; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Sean placed an observative post today on Discussing the importance of form | Gisoku BudoHere&#8217;s a quick excerptThis doesn’t mean I don’t appreciate the extreme effectiveness that modern styles with less emphasis on form than the traditionalists, like MMA, or styles like Muay Thai, Keysi or even Krav Maga bring to the table of martial arts in &#8230; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://www.gisoku-budo.com/2009/03/discussing-the-importance-of-form/comment-page-1/#comment-18</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Mar 2009 02:57:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gisoku-budo.com/?p=171#comment-18</guid>
		<description>Hi Jon,

Wow, thanks for such a detailed reply, and I think as my long-winded post demonstrated, I&#039;m not exactly one to shy away from waffling either!

I absolutely respect your position on this, and believe you make some excellent points - any kind of learning benefits from different ideas and discussion/debate, and I really appreciate you taking the time out to respond with a great deal of thought. My instructor is a big proponent of discussion and sharing ideas with regards to different styles of martial arts, including the precept of cross-training to try and determine the best way that you can be as a martial artist.

Just last week he brought up that in traditional Japanese systems (we&#039;re talking pre-Meiji restoration), depending on the dojo some instructors would send their students to different schools/instructors to learn the skills that other accomplished martial artists could pass on as part of the student&#039;s training. In the seminar I recently attended, there was also discussion on bias with regards to different traditional systems in karate, and how techniques in one style may have been better suited for people of differing body types owing to the body type of the style&#039;s founder. I think the key points with this discussion is that there can be a real benefit in sharing different ideas and concepts in the grand scheme of things.

I think it&#039;s great to have an open mind with regards to training, and when you get the chance to post something on your blog in response to what I&#039;ve written, throw me a trackback and I&#039;ll post my thoughts in response!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jon,</p>
<p>Wow, thanks for such a detailed reply, and I think as my long-winded post demonstrated, I&#8217;m not exactly one to shy away from waffling either!</p>
<p>I absolutely respect your position on this, and believe you make some excellent points &#8211; any kind of learning benefits from different ideas and discussion/debate, and I really appreciate you taking the time out to respond with a great deal of thought. My instructor is a big proponent of discussion and sharing ideas with regards to different styles of martial arts, including the precept of cross-training to try and determine the best way that you can be as a martial artist.</p>
<p>Just last week he brought up that in traditional Japanese systems (we&#8217;re talking pre-Meiji restoration), depending on the dojo some instructors would send their students to different schools/instructors to learn the skills that other accomplished martial artists could pass on as part of the student&#8217;s training. In the seminar I recently attended, there was also discussion on bias with regards to different traditional systems in karate, and how techniques in one style may have been better suited for people of differing body types owing to the body type of the style&#8217;s founder. I think the key points with this discussion is that there can be a real benefit in sharing different ideas and concepts in the grand scheme of things.</p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s great to have an open mind with regards to training, and when you get the chance to post something on your blog in response to what I&#8217;ve written, throw me a trackback and I&#8217;ll post my thoughts in response!</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Law</title>
		<link>http://www.gisoku-budo.com/2009/03/discussing-the-importance-of-form/comment-page-1/#comment-17</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Law</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Mar 2009 10:03:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gisoku-budo.com/?p=171#comment-17</guid>
		<description>Hi Sean, 

Thanks for taking the time to read my waffle and being so reasonable in your post whilst not agreeing with me. You&#039;re a gent. Oh and thanks for the trackback :)

You make some decent points here, and with regard to 

&quot;Standing in funny stances with plenty of minute correction is one of the cornerstones of my road to understanding the inherent functions of my body, especially with regards to my physical disability&quot;

I can see where you are coming from and learning body awareness, for want of a better expression, has clearly helped you immensely, and has been essential in your progression not only in martial arts but everyday life.

However, there had to be a however, right ;), i have two main gripes with anal quibling over form. Firstly, it directs attention away from the actual goal of a technique which is to deliver a powerful strike, or in the case of a stance, to provide an optimal base to strike from, there&#039;s more of course but that will suffice for here.

You end up with a sub optimal strike, IMO. Now I don&#039;t dispense with form completely, obviously correct form IS required to produce a decent strike, but it doesn&#039;t have to be picture perfect and often isn&#039;t pretty. 

Control is related to correct form as you say, but this too CAN result in a sub-optimal outcome. Weak strikes can result as the &#039;muscle memory&#039; (hateful term IMO) replicates what it learns. I can feel a post coming on........ 

My second major gripe, again very much related to form and control, concerns balance. For the majority of people in TMA they remain on balance too much, delivering power involves losing your balance in order to transfer force into the target. In fact, losing balance is essential for dynamic movement; walking involves losing and regaining balance, running also but to a greater degree. In a manner of speaking striking does to, to varying degrees. Of course we need dynamic balance, but reliance on good form leads to static balance.

I hope that makes sense, I will definitely write a post on this subject, but it won&#039;t be just yet I have no time. Thanks again for reading my waffle, mate, I&#039;m very pleased you think it worthwhile writing such an eloquent response.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Sean, </p>
<p>Thanks for taking the time to read my waffle and being so reasonable in your post whilst not agreeing with me. You&#8217;re a gent. Oh and thanks for the trackback <img src='http://www.gisoku-budo.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>You make some decent points here, and with regard to </p>
<p>&#8220;Standing in funny stances with plenty of minute correction is one of the cornerstones of my road to understanding the inherent functions of my body, especially with regards to my physical disability&#8221;</p>
<p>I can see where you are coming from and learning body awareness, for want of a better expression, has clearly helped you immensely, and has been essential in your progression not only in martial arts but everyday life.</p>
<p>However, there had to be a however, right <img src='http://www.gisoku-budo.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> , i have two main gripes with anal quibling over form. Firstly, it directs attention away from the actual goal of a technique which is to deliver a powerful strike, or in the case of a stance, to provide an optimal base to strike from, there&#8217;s more of course but that will suffice for here.</p>
<p>You end up with a sub optimal strike, IMO. Now I don&#8217;t dispense with form completely, obviously correct form IS required to produce a decent strike, but it doesn&#8217;t have to be picture perfect and often isn&#8217;t pretty. </p>
<p>Control is related to correct form as you say, but this too CAN result in a sub-optimal outcome. Weak strikes can result as the &#8216;muscle memory&#8217; (hateful term IMO) replicates what it learns. I can feel a post coming on&#8230;&#8230;.. </p>
<p>My second major gripe, again very much related to form and control, concerns balance. For the majority of people in TMA they remain on balance too much, delivering power involves losing your balance in order to transfer force into the target. In fact, losing balance is essential for dynamic movement; walking involves losing and regaining balance, running also but to a greater degree. In a manner of speaking striking does to, to varying degrees. Of course we need dynamic balance, but reliance on good form leads to static balance.</p>
<p>I hope that makes sense, I will definitely write a post on this subject, but it won&#8217;t be just yet I have no time. Thanks again for reading my waffle, mate, I&#8217;m very pleased you think it worthwhile writing such an eloquent response.</p>
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